In this episode of the Vint Podcast, Billy Galanko and Brady Weller celebrate the 100th episode of the podcast with a much-awaited conversation with Austin Hope of Hope Family Wines. Austin embodies the spirit of Paso Robles and has been instrumental in introducing the region's distinctive spirit to wine drinkers from coast to coast. Austin talks about growing his family's business from one of the early winemakers and grower-partners in the region to an internationally-distributed operation with multiple sub brands and labels. Austin and his team are truly some of the best winemakers in California and we're thrilled to have him join us for the 100th episode of the podcast!
The Vint Podcast is brought to you by the Vint Marketplace, your source for the highest quality stock of fine wines and rare whiskies. Visit www.vintmarketplace.com.
Cheers!
Past Guests Include: William Kelley, Peter Liem, Eric Asimov, Bobby Stuckey, Rajat "Raj" Parr, Erik Segelbaum, André Hueston Mack, Emily Saladino, Konstantin Baum, Landon Patterson, Heather Wibbels, Carlton "CJ" Fowler, Boris Guillome, Christopher Walkey, Danny Jassy, Kristy Wenz, Dan Petroski, Buster Scher, Andrew Nelson, Jane Anson, Tim Irwin, Matt Murphy, Allen Meadows, Altan Insights, Tim Gaiser, Vince Anter, Joel Peterson, Megan O'Connor, Adam Lapierre, Jason Haas, Ken Freeman, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Skyler Weekes, Mary Gorman McAdams, Nick King, Bartholomew Broadbent, Nick Jackson, Dillon Sykes, Mark Bell, David Keck, John Szabo, Channing Frye, Jay Hack, Julia Harding, Austin Hope, Michael Minnillo, Jermaine Stone, Jim Madsen, Santiago Archaval, Tom Smith, and more!
In this episode of the Vint Podcast, Billy Galanko and Brady Weller celebrate the 100th episode of the podcast with a much-awaited conversation with Austin Hope of Hope Family Wines. Austin embodies the spirit of Paso Robles and has been instrumental in introducing the region's distinctive spirit to wine drinkers from coast to coast. Austin talks about growing his family's business from one of the early winemakers and grower-partners in the region to an internationally-distributed operation with multiple sub brands and labels. Austin and his team are truly some of the best winemakers in California and we're thrilled to have him join us for the 100th episode of the podcast!
The Vint Podcast is brought to you by the Vint Marketplace, your source for the highest quality stock of fine wines and rare whiskies. Visit www.vintmarketplace.com.
Cheers!
Past Guests Include: William Kelley, Peter Liem, Eric Asimov, Bobby Stuckey, Rajat "Raj" Parr, Erik Segelbaum, André Hueston Mack, Emily Saladino, Konstantin Baum, Landon Patterson, Heather Wibbels, Carlton "CJ" Fowler, Boris Guillome, Christopher Walkey, Danny Jassy, Kristy Wenz, Dan Petroski, Buster Scher, Andrew Nelson, Jane Anson, Tim Irwin, Matt Murphy, Allen Meadows, Altan Insights, Tim Gaiser, Vince Anter, Joel Peterson, Megan O'Connor, Adam Lapierre, Jason Haas, Ken Freeman, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Skyler Weekes, Mary Gorman McAdams, Nick King, Bartholomew Broadbent, Nick Jackson, Dillon Sykes, Mark Bell, David Keck, John Szabo, Channing Frye, Jay Hack, Julia Harding, Austin Hope, Michael Minnillo, Jermaine Stone, Jim Madsen, Santiago Archaval, Tom Smith, and more!
You're listening to the Vint Podcast, where we bring you interviews and stories from around the world of wine and spirits, from winemakers and critics to sommeliers and masters stillers. We'll explore the people and businesses who are instrumental in shaping the future of today's food and drinks culture. Enjoy the show. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Vint Podcast. My name is Brady, joined once again in the studio by Billy Galenco. Billy, it's been a little bit since we got to sit down and do a proper recording.
Speaker 2:Yeah, between. Well, we had you on the intro last week, but yeah, we've been doing a bunch of interviews without you, so I'm glad to have a full Billy and Brady episode this week.
Speaker 1:That's right yeah, we coming up with an intro, as we always do awesome hope. But I can't remember the last time we had a producer on. That is ubiquitous across. I think like different folks interested in wine kind of recognize their product, those quality, both yeah, the critical acclaim they have, the commercial interest among just kind of casual wine drinkers awesome hope wine. So really great to have Austin on today. We'll talk about that later. That's what folks can look forward to. But when you hear about what you've been up to, what have you been drinking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'd have been proud of me. I have a buddy moving away from LA to Chicago and I was trying to. We had a little going away mule last week, so I was trying to get a wine that the same vintage that he moved here and that was 2016. I was looking through my wines. I have some tucked away that are really hard to get at right now, so it's possible there's a 2016 in there, but for some reason I only have 2015 and 2017 that I was that were close, so I ended up going to 2017, but it was a Ridge Merlot estate Ridge, so from the Montabello estate.
Speaker 2:It was fantastic. I love Ridge Merlot. I know you love Ridge in general, but I shared it with five other guys who are not wine people and they raved about it the whole time and it was nice to see. It was actually really nice because normally I show people wine and they'll either say it's really good. But I even went downstairs and he's at his apartment building and they were grilling up on the roof and I went downstairs and got something, came back and they were talking about the white wines they liked. It actually sparked wine conversation among very much not wine folks. So it was like this is cool, nice yeah that's great.
Speaker 1:That's Santa Cruz Mountains. We'll do that to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I also. I mean it was. So this guy actually had a follow-up, like a going away thing that was a little larger with a bigger group later and his brother was trying to explain to his friend the wine and that his brother's closer to Fordy and his friend is a lawyer in LA. I think he's from California. Well, no, I think he might have grew up on these guys, but he's lived here for decades and he's a lawyer, so they drink nice enough wine. He had never heard of Ridge at all so he was like asking me more questions about it. I was like are you guys? So it's like one of the top five. If you meet any Somalia in the US, if they list their top five US producers, I guarantee Ridge will be in there for almost all of them.
Speaker 1:So that's how I explained it. It's always weird to talk. If someone drinks a lot of US wine and doesn't know Ridge, then they probably only drink Napa like the Valley, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what this guy said. He said that's a great Reco. I'm going to Napa next week, though Do you have any Recos there? I was like, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm doing a similar thing. A friend of mine is getting close friend of mine is getting married and for his bachelor party I'm going to take up a wine from the year that him and his future wife met so it's 2016, actually as well and I'm taking the Sterling Iridium. I don't know if you know that bottle from Sterling. I think they served it at a recent Emmy Awards thing. I think they served like the 2015. I liked the Emmys a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1:That wasn't how I heard about it, but it was. I had acquired the bottle just before that and then I saw it. I was like, oh, that's interesting. But yeah, it's a really interesting bottle. It's like is it a blend? I'm actually not sure. I think it might be a hundred percent cab, but I'm not certain.
Speaker 2:They just gave it a name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sterling Iridium, I guess I look it up. But anyways, it's a black glass bottle with like really unique silver like shoulder, like shoulders on it, like a really elegant looking bottle. So we're going to get like a white paint pan or like a silver paint pan and have all the guys at the bachelor write something on it or whatever. So after we drink it you can keep the bottle in because it's like something that looks nice enough on a shelf kind of thing. We'll do that.
Speaker 2:Nice, that's really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that idea a lot. Let's see, I bought a ton of 2016.
Speaker 2:Well, you're looking that up.
Speaker 1:2016 was big yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, like all of California, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great year. I love all my stuff that I was looking through, where I had a lot more Italian wine than I expected. I have others that are under my stuff I'll talk to away. So I think the reason I had a lot of 2015's I think these were all like Barbarasco Barolo and like Brunello's, which I know 2015 wasn't the best year, it's in the 2013, but it was still pretty good. So I guess somehow I've just randomly acquired them.
Speaker 2:So while you're looking that up, though, I also went to this it's supposed to be a speakeasy within a whiskey bar, so it's the best whiskeys of that place and had the flight. The guy was. The server wasn't the most helpful, but the main thing I had was a Glen More that was made with bare barley, which is like a native landrace barley, so that was pretty cool. He also gave me like an American single malt for free, and then some other one that you would have recognized, that I don't know as well as a bourbon. It's one of the ones that has like a little figurine on the top. I forgot the producer's name, like the horse thing Blanton's, but it was only made for the Japanese market.
Speaker 1:Is it the green label one, or green, red or?
Speaker 2:black. Something like that? I don't think so. I don't know if you can see this, but like it looked kind of like this yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't tell if it's the label red or is it brown. It's like tan yeah, tan yeah, it's a normal. Okay, it's just beautiful, it's red.
Speaker 2:Bland Bland's SVB, sfb. Sorry, this is green podcasting for everyone, but yeah, the guy did a horrible job at explaining any of them, so I was just like I'm not going to go back there, but anyways either get right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I found this sterling iridium. It's 100% cab, but it's 18 months in 91% French, 9% Hungarian. And I see Lisa Prody Brown 93 points Right into the program. Yeah, friend of the pod, that's right, concentrated, robust, full bodied. I'm sure the guys will like it.
Speaker 2:Nice that was. It could be my description for the ridge, but before I forget, I wanted to do my wine of the week, or what we're drinking this weekend as well, and yeah, so that was. I was inspired this weekend that we were actually at the same going away party thing. I'm in one of our friends's from Argentina originally and he was going down there and we got to talking a little bit about what was going on. He's oh, there's election going on, and I actually had no idea. I don't think many people keep up with the regular Argentinian elections. But it made me think that we haven't really touched much on the podcast, even after we had Santiago on the pod, about why Argentinian wines can be so affordable. I know I have a ton of friends who absolutely love Malbec, even if they're not that into wine from Argentina. So there's two points I want to make. One is about the unique quality of the Argentinian wines and that will be Argentinian Malbec I'm specifically talking about and then also the affordability and kind of TLDR and why they're affordable.
Speaker 2:First, a lot of the Argentinian Malbec that you love from Mendoza. Not all of the regions are super high, but places like the Uco Valley and some other places are very high elevation. So what this allow again, I'm talking about like over a mile in some cases above sea level this allows for hot days and cool nights, which everybody knows helps ripen during the day, and then the cool nights help stop that ripening and allow acid to be retained. Also, the elevation allows the sun rays to actually be stronger, so that creates kind of thicker skins, which ends up darker color, darker tannin. But what that also does allows them to ripen fully phenolically rather than just put it like developing just sugar. So it's ripening all of the fruit and the flavors in the skin, not just creating alcohol. So there's this really unique dynamic that you're getting in high elevation Argentinian Malbec. That actually does make it different and unique. So you're not crazy for saying you like this Malbec and maybe you don't like another one that's maybe grown in California for whatever reason. So I think that's really cool. I've always loved that.
Speaker 2:And then the second piece is the affordability. There's always been a really good exchange rate between not always, but in the recent past between US the US dollar. It's been very strong in Argentinians. If you go to visit there I've always heard you can eat like a king. Your dollar goes a really long way and in return, when they're selling the wine to the US, they're actually able to sell that at relatively affordable prices for us and still make a profit or make things work down there because they're getting USD in return. That's why exporting to the US is such a lucrative market for them.
Speaker 2:So I just want everybody to also think about that when they're going and looking at Argentinian wines and they're like well, why is it so cheap? It must not be good necessarily. That's not always the case. You can find excellent wines at really good values for Argentina just because of the way the economy works, and the election made me think of that, because I was looking at the results today and it looks like the party that's been in power that has overseen 100% plus inflation over the past year is actually leading and is now going to a runoff. We might be able to maintain our value for a while more.
Speaker 1:Nice. Yeah, I started exploring more South American wines after we did our South American collection and we featured Seine from Chile, and Chivalde Andes were two that stood out and I purchased after we did that collection, which is Mendoza. The Chivalde Andes is certainly one of the top wines in South America and I think the retail is around $120, $130. So, yeah, a ton of value down there. When you talk about Napa Valley average to slightly above average producers wines starting at $120 in Napa, being able to acquire easily one of the top wines in the region down in Argentina is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:That's good. Also wanted to note, before we forget, this is our 100th episode, so thank you. Thank you to everyone for tuning in and listening to us each week. We've enjoyed gathering sommeliers, producers, folks from all across the wine industry for you each week, really enjoyed this format. We had big plans for how we would launch this 100th episode, but it seems like it's going to come and go quietly, which is fine. The Vint business is doing well and we're excited that we continue to be able to carve out time to do this each week with everyone. That being said, if you're listening to this and would like to email bradybradycom at vintco with one of your favorite moments or insights or episodes guess that we've had on the podcast over the last several months or over the first 100 episodes the first five folks who email in, I will send you all some wine. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear about what you've enjoyed from the past several episodes and, hopefully, 100 more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I meant to bring this up right at the beginning, can't believe we forgot Just hacking on Brady's note there about emailing him. You have to be over 21 to receive wine and Brady will actually vet you before sending you wine.
Speaker 3:So we're not just sending it to anybody who can hear us.
Speaker 2:Yes, there are all the lawyers out there. All right, we'll speak to. Pat, let's. So we can talk about our man, austin Hopier. You wanted to do a little bit of interest, since he was one of your favorites before you got on the event.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, sure yeah. Like a lot of folks, I think, who are familiar with Austin Hope or even just familiar with the wines of Pastor Robles, which I talk about a lot, and Billy and I have done several interviews from producers in Paso and the Central Coast. He's Austin's wines for a lot of people I think are probably introductions to Pastor Robles and we talk about that on the podcast. They make premium wines across categories or across varietals at different price points. Really, I think all but their reserve Austin Hope cab is under $75 for their entire portfolio ranges from $15 to $75. Really, wines for everyone.
Speaker 1:And Austin, his family, have been pioneers in Paso over the last 30 years as it's really come on the map and a lot of farmers, growers there transition to growing grapes and now there are well over 200 producers in the Paso region and the sub aviaries are there within. Awesome to hear Austin's perspective on how the region has changed, how they've marketed themselves over time, all the little things that they've done, just testing things out as they got up to scale, and then how their perspective on the market and perspective on their brand has changed as they come into really prominent national distribution channels and widely distributed coast to coast making and selling a lot of wine and working with a ton of different growers and still maintaining really high quality. Austin gave a lot of really good perspective on that, I thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we've touched on Paso a number of different ways so far on the podcast and this was an interesting one because his family is really one of the legacy families. There isn't as long of a high quality wine making back history in Paso as there are in other places, so his family going back 30 plus years in planting wine grapes on a larger scale like a very concerned effort is really cool. It was great to hear how that's evolved over time, how they're really working with different terroir and they're really trying to create wines that are available at all price points but that also do the region justice. And then they're also exploring having additional new varieties planted. They're testing out different things. I really like to hear that they weren't just trying to do only more of the same thing. It's a lot of testing and growing and trying to help local growers gain knowledge as well. I thought it was fascinating. Podcast or not? Podcast interview.
Speaker 1:I'll just add I appreciate every interview we do where we hear from someone who either went through a rapid expansion of their portfolio and in terms of the scale of their business before it got acquired, like when we talked to Dan Petrosky or others Tomas at Lingua Franca as well and their project I think we've heard over and over again these really high quality producers are able to maintain and even elevate quality at scale.
Speaker 1:It sounds like Alson and them have done a great job at increasing quality and continuing to reinvest and ensuring that quality doesn't dip with scale but actually hopefully in some instances, improves. Yup, here is Alson Hope hey.
Speaker 4:Alson, thanks so much for joining us. Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is great. I think for a lot of people Hope Family Wines is there. Sometimes they're introduction to premium California wines, but definitely for a lot of people wines in central case and most variables. So, yeah, it's exciting. I mean we can get a little bit of an overview of what your family means to this region and how you got started in the business over 30 years ago as a family.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's pretty amazing. You say that the time frame it's definitely. It's a little bit surreal, to be honest with you, but my folks were definitely early pioneers of the region, got here in 78 and started planting wine grapes and didn't know what the heck we were doing. But eventually over time it was proved to be the right thing to do. But back in the day when we got here, it was really. It was not what it is today by any means, and it was definitely. Grapes were not the number one commodity. It was more of a dry land grains and things like that cattle and then slowly morphed into the vineyards. It was interesting because we used to laugh about it back in the day that it's sort of the grain farmers hated the grapes because they use this particular product.
Speaker 4:That they are weed control and when they would want to use it, it was usually about the times our vines would start, the buds would start to swallowing and popping and start to grow and if any of that particular product drifted it would shut down, it would spoke to vines for the year and potentially kill them. So they didn't like us because they had to stop using those products. Just one of the grape farmers would say, okay, we've got bud break, time to stop using this product. But it's funny. The reason I bring it up is the anecdotal story, because today all those grain farmers are grape farmers. So we can come full circle.
Speaker 4:But coming to the region and from 78 slowly working our way into the wine industry, over time we were farmers, we sold, we did plant the right varieties up first. We quickly learned and we were back in the day we were part of that whole Trinkero was white Zinfadel. We were in the midst of that. We had Zinfadel and couldn't sell all Zinfadel. Then it turned into well, we'll make white Zinfadel and we grew white Zinfadel for a long time and so we've gone through all the transitions. So we couldn't sell fruit and couldn't give it away. And then it was white Zen and then we realized that it was really going to be a premium red, started planting more Cabernet and things like that and then we slowly morphed into getting into the wine side of it, making both wines and trying to sell there. And that's how we slowly got into it and then really jumped in in 95 in the real way and started Triana in 1996 and that's really had to how we started.
Speaker 4:So we were definitely early on in multiple things, not only in wine making and Passo, but also with the release of the Triana Red. Our kind of flagship brand to you will was a very different thing to do at the time. We joke about it internally. We were a little ahead of things sometimes but released a red table wine and with the 96 vintage at 40 bucks of bottle from region WDU was pretty aggressive.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of change. During that time, well over 200 wine was in the so ABAs and that right, yes, probably way on moving.
Speaker 4:It's at least, that's definitely more than that for sure, sure.
Speaker 1:I hope Stanley wines definitely in the name, but y'all in stores coast to coast said we're often folks. Introduction, I think, to the region in a number of different ways.
Speaker 1:How have you maintained, I guess, your hands on approach over that time? Coming to scale is certainly haven't lost any of the pre-meditation that I think you expect from a family in smaller winery, even though you do have the scale. So if you maybe answer that and also give us a sense of just how, what's the scale like? How big is your, are your estate vineyards, and what amount of fruit are you buying these days?
Speaker 4:Yes, all good questions, really, because it's. I appreciate your comments deeply because, to me, as you scale, there are several things that happen. One is, typically people lose quality, and that was one of the biggest things that we've learned over the years is how can we scale something that's a premium product and continue to get better. That's always been our goal, from day one. We've been aggressive about that and it's been a fun journey. Be honest with you. Our team has only gotten better and sharper and we were always, I think, ahead of the curve on not just doing things conventionally and range always been done.
Speaker 4:I'm not a classically trained wine maker by school, which I find helpful, be honest with you and now my director of wine making is. He's been a lifelong friend and he started out as a welder for us when we started to get into the industry and building this winery the first winery we built. So his buying comes from a different way and I was raised in a, was fortunate to work for Chuck Wagner back in the day waiting for this and learned a lot from him. He's also comes from the ground, if you will punch the soil farming background and learn what we're by doing and I just asking questions when I was young and be like what do you think about this? I don't know, right, right. And so that's always been our philosophy of just trying. We've done some crazy things and some people have worked for us and still work for us and have brought things that you've never already tried. That I'm like, oh yeah, that was pretty wild, but I think that was part of it. And really maintaining not cutting corbers right, that's the biggest thing. And the other thing, on scale too, is interesting is for what reason? In its particularly, it's very noticed in the white industry, for that matter, and not in spirits and not any other things.
Speaker 4:But as a winery grows, we started getting where some people say, oh, they're just a big brand. And it happened to you with Liberty School back in the day when we started growing that brand and scaling that brand, and that was a big brand so everywhere. So it's definitely not everywhere. Yes, we're growing and it's the quality still there. The quality's gotten better anything. And I would always push him. I said but you know why it's growing, you know why it's scaling, because I'm still at the root. But that's all I did. We started it was me, a salesperson, and Jesse, which still was today. I brought him in for the vineyards and I held leaves with him since I was six years old and said come on, you're going to make wine. He still was today. It's cool because people like it. That's why it's growing.
Speaker 4:And why would that? Then some of the songs would get aggressive on things we try and be. I'm like I don't understand. I don't understand. If it was a man and he's married, I'd be like, hey, does your wife have a Louis Vuitton? Oh yeah, it's a great bag. She loves it. Oh, really, huh, I wonder how many bags they made. Three or four, do you think how many bags they could make? Because I was just in the Hong Kong and there was two Louis Vuitton stores in Hong Kong.
Speaker 4:So I think they've learned how to scale something that is left quality, and so why can't we do it in the White House? And so to me it's been almost a quest, right. So we've been outsiders to a certain extent on the way we go to market and we haven't really looked at it. We've definitely grown under the radar, right. People don't really know our size or scope, but, as you said earlier, we're coast to coast and we're in 36 countries and aggressively pushing to be in other countries, because, the end of the day, my goal is to have the past, world-wide, be a household name. That's what I want to see happen and I think it's achievable in my lifetime, as NAPPA has done with their region. So why not do that? Scaling, scaling, scaling white companies is extremely difficult to do, but I'd say the more positive thing of scaling in the wine business is it affords us more opportunities in technology and being able to learn more right and really get into the degree, the micro understanding of what makes a barrel work. So now we have our own barrel toast for drinks. We have our own.
Speaker 4:Like we were one of the first people to push barrel companies to age saves more than two and three years. We used to be 12, 24, 48 months. Why not age longer? We aged our for five to seven years and we started that a long time ago. We actually had to pay for it because we can't do everything. That's 90. And I'm like, okay, well, give us something, tell us what it costs. So we did and then we said, well, maybe we don't want a steam ban, maybe we want a water ban, maybe we don't want a fire ban. We started doing all these different things and that really was the tipping point for us where we just kept pushing.
Speaker 4:It's one of the big things. It doesn't work. Try something different. You don't just do what everybody's doing. You got to keep pushing the envelope all the time. That goes from farming to winemaking. It's infiltration systems. There's so much.
Speaker 4:I just got done with the meeting with our vice president, direction Roderick. She's been with us for 27 years and she runs the company now and it was funny because we're like, remember this, remember that. We're like, yes, but we just kept grinding and never settled. That's the big thing for us and as far as we're at today, when we first started here we were one of the larger growers in the area, but when we decided to get into the white industry and really plant a flag and really go for it, we had to build a building and we had to buy barrels, we had to buy tanks and I joke, we got into the white industry the old badger way. We didn't have any money.
Speaker 4:So this business is extremely expensive because we're always chasing our money. It's not like other commodities where if, say, you're a farmer, you grow your crop, we borrow the money for that year, then you get paid. Why do you don't do that? So we've got two advantages We've already bought two years of grapes and we haven't even sold a bottle yet from that first vintage. And then we're Asian, we have barrels for them. So there's all this. Your money is way, always way out there. So it's anyways.
Speaker 4:The point of that is that we started selling vineyards to afford to buy tanks and barrels and build a winery. So now we're down to our state vineyard, which is where we develop our rones 46 West, and it's about a 70 acre property dedicated to rones in the typical gap district and the rest. Now we have leases. We've got about 50 to 60 families that farm for us on our manual basis and we've got our own director of vineyards that work for us. And then I've got another independent farming company outside of that, but we all collaborate and make farm plans for each individual vineyard, and so we're very detailed in what we do and how we get the fruit to where we need to be. And then we've got a director of wine making us create our own algorithm like how to gauge straight quality. And so we're always, just constantly dreaming, right? People joked that sometimes they'll say I'm like the head of the Willy Wonka factory. Right, because we, just we. We create things and do things, and sometimes they don't work, but sometimes they do. It's exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think back to the idea of scaling and quality, tending to dip. I think some people have this preconceived notion that maybe it's somewhere like Napa where the vineyards are the best vineyard land is planted, or it's like extremely expensive, or it's somebody sourcing fruit from maybe the not the central valley yeah, like the central valley and it's coming from like way outside the region. But I don't think folks understand enough how young of a region Paso still is and that, since you guys are actually some of the older folks there, you're able to actually impart knowledge to these other growers and actually there's all this untapped potential of these vineyards that are actually waiting to come online and it will allow you guys to scale with quality.
Speaker 4:There's no question about it, which we we don't get too deep. So my folks were early off, so they were one of the one of the one of the founding members of the Paso Reals Wine Alliance, which has done a great job marketing Paso and still continues this day. And then they were also one of the founding people that got the pastorals AVA established and then I was one of the people that really pushed to get to the sub AVA established and through all these things it's been interesting right, because, like I said, this rate of playing district, which is one of the sub AVA is is was really the workhorse, right, and if you've been here, that's where treasury has their place out there. And red used to be meridian and and everybody got going out in that area and it was owned by multiple different companies over the years. But then it started spreading a little bit, reaching out a little more, and even when we were young we were always looking at different soils and we would find early in the career we find certain Cabernets or certain grapes that would do really well, like why did that do really well? So we dig soil pits, we'd find out, and then we back in the day when we were really trying to understand the region.
Speaker 4:We we actually would get into small plain and we had all these big USGS maps and we would just, we would fly around and look at the areas that we saw something. We would go back out in the car, we would dig around in there, we'd ask the people and we'd say, hey, we think you have potential to grow grapes here. Would you plant grapes? And they'd, some would do it, some would not. And now some of the areas we were really aggressive on early on are now flourishing and there's a lot of vineyards around there. And now people are watching us too because they know we're we're having success with really premium Cabernet hands. So they're, they're really watching us work where the regions are watching some of our, some of our our, our other other wine vines here now planting vineyards in those areas.
Speaker 4:And so it's cool to see, right, because I think that the 11 sub-AVAs of Paso the goal behind that was to just highlight the diversity of Paso and what we can do. Right, we grow a tremendous amount of varieties and we grow a ton of them really well, which is not more typically regions will be able to. They highlight a handful of things right. Well, we can do so much in this one region and because of the 11 sub-AVAs, there's different soils, there's different temperatures, there's different rainfall, it's so it's a really magical place and that's one of the things that we can grow up this URA. That's like Co-Road Z in Northern Rome in one area and then we can go to another area that's only 20 miles apart, and we we can grow Shiraz, but wine is more like like a Shiraz in Australia more fruit driven up front, less structure, and so it's really.
Speaker 1:It's awesome In reality and there are a couple really unique. Bob, you have your Muvad and Shiraz. It's what? 66% Muvadry, 33% Shiraz I just don't know. In two mammals like that that you can. I know I've seen it even on the East Coast, which is something that you would think. Oh, we made the X-Zelvan and it's stated I don't know. Yeah, I just think that's really unique. And your Liberty School label, which you mentioned earlier. It could very well be, you know, it's California tab under $20. And so you just have kind of these interesting little projects where you've been able to have massive success. It seems like in spaces where I don't know anyone else doing those two things. You know what I mean. That's the same thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, thank you. That's yeah. That's a great observation. We definitely pride ourselves in that. We're super proud of that and we're proud of offering, offering good experiences at all levels. Right, because I'm a consumer to the day too and I don't want to have to pay $100 for a great bottle of wine every day. I want to be able to pay $15, $20 for a great bottle of wine and it's doable.
Speaker 4:And I think some of the reasons we've had success in that like, even with the new brand of the Austin brand, which is $20, we have a cab in a chardonnay, a pastel cab and a pastel chardonnay, or is it another example, right?
Speaker 4:So you've got Liberty School at $15, $18, you've got this one at $20. Then you've got our Triana Cabernet at $30, which is, hands down from the best value that we have in our portfolio, and then jump into the Austin Ope Cabernet, which is more luxury side, and then we've got all of our estate realms set that we still. And then we've also got a whole other program called Seller Select, which we make wines just for our tasting cell and for wine club. So we've got a whole different market over there that, like we make a Garaciano, we make a Merlot, we make a Vettigverdo, we just get to play right and do whatever we want and make things a smaller scale. So we've been very pointed in what we do, right. We don't want to. We just don't want gross stuff at the wall, right? So everything we do is very long-term bought out, right. Yassin O'Cabaret and Graham was a five to seven year thing we looked at and can we do this?
Speaker 4:What do we want it to be? What do we want it to be like? What's our goal? Where are we headed? Can we fulfill it? Can we scale it? So we do all that.
Speaker 4:So we're even before we launch a brand, which is a tremendous amount of work. If it fails, we've lost five, seven years of time and money. That you know. But at least we did it right. So now we understand what it's going to take and that's why Triana was actually born Triana Cabernet, not the Triana Red, the early on, but the Triana Cabernet. Because we were practicing. Can we make a premium Cabernet and scale it and continue to year over year? So Triana Cabernet was born.
Speaker 4:So that's why I thought about it. It's like a baby Yassin O'Cabernet, but it's the values ridiculous on it. So it's essentially a great ball of wine, but we didn't think about consumers a lot and we want to be there for all of them. Right, we want to be able to capture the people that are just getting into the marketplace and learning. And these brands have success for several reasons, but mainly because they taste like they're supposed to taste. That they taste.
Speaker 4:The Risco Virgin will taste like Cabernet, smells like Cabernet has tannins like Cabernet, but not big, and they're approachable right, especially for early consumers. And we've spent a tremendous amount of my lifetime in the company's lifetime understanding tannins and how to and I don't understand how to manipulate them and not make them aggressive and not make them hard, because I think that's the old adage of oh you got to lay it down, but take time. And to me I'm like I always hated that comment, right. I'm like why do I want to lay it down? Why can't you guys make it tasteably, release it? And I'm not being arrogant, but I got to understand.
Speaker 1:And can you actually stop the heat? Do you speak to that like ageability at your premium? Like how much do you think of that with your Alston, how Cabernet and your reserve Cabernet? Because I know the reason profile. You want that through upfront and you want it to be bold and fresh. How do you think about ageability of those?
Speaker 4:wines, or do you not, like you just say, I do. I do think about ageability because it comes out of tannins, right, so the tannins on those wines are, analytically they're very high, but what we've done is we've learned how to make them not be drying and aggressive and have a bite, right, we've learned how to smooth those tannins, how to manipulate those tannins, because tannins are a molecular chain. We learned how to break those chains and their winemaking practices and then manipulate it. And it's crazy because sometimes it goes against what you would think. Like, even in fermentation, we're adding wood, right, and people, when that's a bit other thing you could unwrap, oh, it's like. Oh, it's too much oak, and I'm like, no, you don't even have any concept of that. The more oak, like we is a tremendous amount of new oak, a lot, and none of our wines taste so raw. They are the factor in the wine for sure. Do you get new lots of different things from a barrel, 100%, but you never have it where it's just oh, this, just let's take that Tastes like oak Because of the way we've learned how to toast barrels, the way we've learned how to integrate these barrels, that we're timing of it right, like we cut up barrels that go into fermentation at a certain point we get we know when to put them in there and these tannin chains grab onto them and actually it changes the whole complex of how the end result turns out. Instead of where your mind would be like, you're adding more tannin to it by adding more wood. So the wine should be more tannin, not smooth as soft and supple. So we've bought all these different things, that from temperature, so it's like a circus around here, what we really get deep into it, but age ability to circle back on it. They do it Because they do have a lot of tannin on them. We just, I just it was been.
Speaker 4:We've been going through all of our old venezes and I was really aggressive early on in my career and even when we didn't have much wine, I would always say we want to save wine, and when we'd save like a pallet of wine, which is a lot of wine right Way back in the day, that would be like we'd probably save it. Everybody's always on my ass. Now we got a warehouse full of all these wines and so I started tasting it over the last two years and all the way back from 96. And some of them were great, some of them were okay, some of them were awesome. We did it for a couple of reasons. One is to be able to see is how we're doing Wilden's wines age Then then, secondly, be able to. My aspiration back then didn't know if we'd have success or not was to be able to re-introduce it. Well, somebody came we had some people in town yesterday from Tennessee, our distributors and they went to a restaurant downtown and they were like I had the 2015 awesome Cabernet on there and they were like, is that a mistake? And they ordered it and they're like well, the owners know, well, awesome, gave me these older vinegars. So now I'm doing that. Right, because that is another factor to help really promote cement passive as a world-class wine region.
Speaker 4:Right, when you see those found, does everybody necessarily drink old wines? No, I don't think they do. I think it's another one of those wine fairy tales. Right, they say they want to drink old wines. I've done this a thousand times. I'll bring old wines to a gathering, or even do it in a closed scenario and be like, oh, and as the night goes on, you're watching, everybody will taste the old wines, but then they grab and taste the new ones and those are the ones they drink. And so the next day the younger wines are all bottles are gone. They have at least really great fancy wines, and then the old wines still have a half a bottle, because it's not what people drink, but it's more of a I want to say novelty is not the right word but it's more of an experience, right, like you get to taste something older that has aged 15, 20 years. It's just cool to be part of it, like oh, wow, that's cool.
Speaker 4:I had a 2000 last night, 23 year old bottle of wine and I tasted it, and some people they love those kind of things. It's a small percentage of people To me. I think it's just cool to be able to experience it. So when people come to town, we'll open them up. We'll do every once in a while. We'll just put out online and be like okay, here's a vertical 98, 99, 2000, triana, redd and Salomon. We've had to adapt to that too, though. So people don't know how to deal with old forks either, right? So I started putting in it cost us money, but it still didn't matter. I did it anyways, but I put those cork pops in there and they did a little video like okay, just shove it in there, we'll ask the cork out. That way you won't have any issues.
Speaker 2:That's really smart. I was going to say there's companies like, like Penfolds, I guess, that do re. They'll re-cork your bottle every so often, but I hadn't heard of that approach before, so we're good.
Speaker 4:We just talked about that yesterday. It's a great point because we're it's been on my list that we've been just constantly going. But what we're going to do is break these things down this next winter, uncork them the ones we think still have time and this cork's gotten better over the years too. There's lots of things that's gotten better over the years. We're going to uncork and do that same thing that Penfolds does, because it's I think it's important, right?
Speaker 4:If people like that stuff and it's cool to be able to see it, why 30, 40, 50 year old ball of wine?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, certainly. But I also agree with what your sentiment on not everybody likes the old wine. I always find it really interesting when somebody's drinking an older wine and they want some of those like development notes. But the best older wines always have, there's still so much fruit and so much concentration. Well, you didn't have to wait that long to get that, so it is interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, so, with, I guess, how? I'm just curious about how you think about your portfolio now and then where it might be going in the future. Are you going to try to continue to expand under the current labels or are you going to try to continue to develop a dynamic portfolio Because, like even something like the Troublemaker, like some people might not even know that's part of the umbrella. I think it's an interesting mix.
Speaker 4:And it is interesting because we've got a wine for everybody and it's I don't know. I feel like we joke about it internally and like the worst marketing person in the entire world. Right, it's like why do you have so many damn names? Right, because and young people don't know that we have Triana, we have Quest, we have Troublemaker, the Austin brand, the Austin Oak brand, seller's selection, liberty School. We have all these different things going on under them barrel of hope, penalty wines, which is good. I think over time we're winning the battle. People are slowly seeing that because they'll see, they'll look at the labels, they'll say, oh, they see mighty money and they're like, okay, they're slowly putting associations together and it really goes down. That's doing a better job. Educating the trade. Right, the gatekeepers are the people that are actually the ones that are closer to the consumer that they're talking to on a daily basis, and really that's where focus is really educate them.
Speaker 4:We just released that Austin brand. We felt that there was a whole market. We used to do the strip throw stuff all the time, but I think we were early and we weren't as smart back then. So we've got brands that have died, that we've just sat in a box and sit there and we started to do a premium boxed wine we had a long time ago and it was brilliant concept in my mind because we designed the box actually to fit on a 750 shelf in a supermarket. So it was. It was. Then it was. It only took up a bottle's shape and it was just almost the same height and it was cool brand. But we're too early now. We're just coming back around and I'm like nah, though what we were trying to release RTD God.
Speaker 4:15 years ago we had a troublemaker. Actually we had it in those little tennis cups that it gets. There was a brand that around right, that the plastic and teal top life a little grade. They didn't get those to go. Now everybody's like what's your brand? With the back. I'm like no, you just pour us back to the other one. We're not doing it, we're doing it. Someone moves on, do something different.
Speaker 1:But I think I'm gonna send some of these and I'm gonna hand them to my questioner.
Speaker 4:I need some. They're super cool. I think with that jiggard brand, the Austin brand, we saw that and the Austin Oak brand, for that matter. Right, we really believed that we wanted to be the standard for luxury and basketball with Cabernet and there was nobody doing it. We wanted to make it two, three, four $500 bottle of wine, if our competitors are doing, but be able to sell for 50 to 60 bucks. And that's what we did and that's part of the reason we had some of success, because it does.
Speaker 4:The people that are drinking it know that they have to be 100 or 200 or 300 to get that kind of a wine. And we figured out how to do it not at that price point, and we're fair to we didn't think about consumers, right, we don't want to gouge and we want to make a living and we want people to enjoy our products. But I think as we look to the future, we're always like what's next, like the biggest flood we did pushing right now, which not a lot of people know, is Quest, which is a brand that we've released. It's a sleep burn. It started to slowly catch the traction, but it's primarily it's Cabernet frog based. So we're bet that variety is really gonna be next, because it's a great, can be a great bottle of wine, but there's not a ton of them out there that are great. Right, there's a lot of average Cabernet frogs but not a lot of great ones, and most of the great ones are really not accessible by price and by accessibility in the marketplace. So that's one that we're really pushing in. It's accessible. Ours is 25 to 30 bucks. It's not crazy expensive. We're excited about that.
Speaker 4:I think that's gotta have some legs. We're looking at other regions too. To be honest with you. We've California is small, it is huge, and we've, like various straps of service right Of what we can do in this region. We're always looking at things like that. I am been looking. We are now the largest rower in the state of California of Pino Tars. So that's something that I'm very interested in, that I'm hoping in the next coming years we'll be able to release a brand that'll be dedicated to its own brand, to Pino Tars it's.
Speaker 4:I find the great really interesting. So it's a blend. It was Pino, arde Sencel. They read those two together and asked the byproducts. So it's a. It's dark and, as we all know, it's funny, but it's Pino. In America today is dark. It didn't used to be but it is now it's. It's learned that they're believed that Pino's dark and it can be and it cannot be. So either way it doesn't matter, it's just. But to me I think it's a easy name to say We've made a little bit of it, because very little around you can't really find it. We were made to like garage. We found some of the backyard. It's how we made some of it. But I think it's an easy name to say Pino Tars. It's got Pino in it. It's dark, it's got a little more structure to it, but it still can be fresh and useful. I'm hoping that is going to be something in the future for us. We've been toying with the idea of this well, a grassy annual, when we wereHOV Usually Accountments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I wanted to make a comment about it. When we were tasting rain two or three years ago, I think the attendant really liked us because she poured everything. One of the ones that I believe is did you guys start making that accidentally? Is that what I?
Speaker 4:remember Okay.
Speaker 1:Maybe you can tell that story briefly.
Speaker 4:So there was a clone called Monastrol, which is a famous club in Spain of Bovedra. We were one of the first to really start planting roms in this area. We were on the short list to be able to get this new variety Once I went through orange, all these things. So it was myself and Matt Travis from Lee Nicolado and Justin Smith from Sacks. He got some. We all got a little bit and we planted it and we're like, okay, and this was supposed to be Monastrol.
Speaker 4:Well, in Graciano it was also known as Moricell and we think the butters I don't know it was, maybe it was a Monday morning every weekend, I don't know. They said, okay, you need to bud all these Monastrol plants and they grabbed the wrong buzz and said Moricell and said Monastrol. They look similar. And I think that's what happens. We get all these, we planted and grow them and they grow different, they look different. And ours was planted next to a Movedra block on our estate and I'm like, man, these really look different. And then our first harvest, I'm like I tasted them. They're totally different flavor profiles, they're not aligned. And when we pick and I'm like so I had text to Justin Smith, some sacks. And I'm like hey, man, if you didn't get any of this new clone, I'm going to send over a box and you make it. You see what you think it's really different than Movedra, I don't know.
Speaker 4:It's very odd because I did plant some. I didn't know he'd plant some. He says I planted some and I said I don't think it's Movedra, I thought I'd plant some either. So he sent it in to Davis and got a DNA and he came back and thought it was not Monastrol, it was Moricell, which is Grosjeanil. I was pissed for three years, be honest with you, and we tried to make it into a lot. Just send it. It's a different animal. It was really difficult to work with. It's easy to grow, it grows, it doesn't seem to be susceptible to disease which is a big thing these days and it's got tons of color, tons of structure. It's gangly. It's just a very odd thing.
Speaker 4:Anyways, we finally learned how to make it good and we reluctantly released it because I had this hate against it you took six years of my life, but you're not what you're supposed to be and we released it and then our customers loved it I'm like huh and so we made another one and now we can't make another. It's crazy. There's like a rush on it. We released it on the web. What was it? We could for last? It Just like like build us order and now they're buying it and they're like some of our Y-Club servers, like they have people that you call me. When it's released, it is $90 a bottle. It's expensive, I know so, I don't know. So I keep thinking of myself but I don't want to get crazy and really go. But we are in toy with it.
Speaker 4:Maybe down the road it could be another variety that, as consumers in the US get more educated. That's one thing you guys do wonderful job educating people. It's just the knowledge that for people now is much easier to come by, which has been a great thing for the white industry, because we've always been very stodgy, very archaic, very pretentious and it was really difficult for people to get into the white industry until the last I think, say, 10, 12 years or more, people like you guys got involved and people are making it fun and easy and not, you know, feel like you can ask somebody in a store if you can tell me about this wine and they're going to be happy to tell you about it, whereas if you asked 10, 15 years ago, we said a word or a variety to a solid restaurant. They're embarrassed for life, so it's demystified.
Speaker 1:I've never pronounced a French word properly on this podcast. One way that you guys did that really well, I think was actually at the start of the pandemic when you did those cooking videos in your house. You watched a lot of you know company's make first time content during the time period for six or nine months or whatever. That was some of the best content that I watched, that during that whole period. There was just something about being there in your home, how easy you were with the audience and bringing them in, not making the food like the cooking process, fussy at all, right and just yeah, I thought that was really good content. You guys should do more of that. I'm sure you have all the time in the world to just stand around?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we do. It's very sweet of you. Thank you very much for saying that, because it was interesting, because we were finally coming in and I'm like, hey, I think this internet thing's going to stick around. We probably should get more serious with our website, and my wife and I were working on building the platform, all these things, and we started I guess it was in whatever the year before the whole COVID thing and it was like, yeah, 2019, we started it. We started building this platform, whatever, saying and I think this is the word we're headed we got to be available to these consumers and our taste friends are busy and it's like people all the time, it's like we need to talk to our audience. That's the reality, right, it's what I just said a minute ago. It's important to be transparent and explain things and let them feel part of what you're doing, part of the journey that we're all on. Right, because it's just it's more fun for them and it's cool. We were playing all this stuff and then, boom, that happens. And then we're like, well, here we go. We had our platform already built, released it, and we were actually in London, got kicked out of London in 2020 and just started.
Speaker 4:I went through cold depression for a little bit and after that, okay, we got to go. We didn't let anybody go, we didn't take any PPP. We just repurposed and said, okay, everybody, let's start figuring out something to do. We had managers deliver wide people's homes and drop it off. They're forged. I'm making videos and my wife's making a playlist and it's this. We just went for it and so we still do them here and there. But I did need to do some more of those because people did enjoy it.
Speaker 4:I didn't know at first. I was like I don't know if I was going to come across. But I do. I love to cook. I cook every day. And then people said, plainly, like it. I'm like, okay, but because I'm really big on an whole approachability thing, right, not only with our wines, but just the style of how we come across.
Speaker 4:And I think there's just there's too much in the world that they over complicate things and try and make these cooler than they should be. We're already in the cool industry. What do we got to pack cooler for? This is like we're providing. What we give is, to me, is one of the best products in the world. I don't know if there's anything better.
Speaker 4:It brings so much together, right? You can break up over a bottle of wine, you can get married over a bottle of wine, you can get a fight over a bottle of wine, but it brings people together like no other thing. I think the rate is out there, right? Maybe food you'd be the only other thing bring people together to where you can have an intimate group of people that you don't even know and might be best friends by the time it's over. Probably not going to happen over a bottle of scotch, a bottle of whiskey or beer. Probably not going to happen. Whatever, why, there's something about it. It's just there's this leisurely thing that brings people together and so it's really cool. It's cool to be part of that. You think about that. You're in people's homes and then they tell you about it, right? No-transcript. Providing happiness man, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say I completely agree. I was thinking about the. I just went to a whiskey tasting and I think that's an interesting note. It's like by the end some people either just like way too buzzed or something. It's just yeah, it's not nothing like a wine environment.
Speaker 4:No, it's totally different.
Speaker 1:You guys have a pretty, pretty big I'm just calling it your aesthetic sensibilities. Your a lot of your wines, creature or work or some kind of on this or most, or my children. It sounds based on what I've been told and what I've read. Keep just talking a little bit. And even your tasting room is different than most tasting rooms that I've been to Little pod sections. You're like you're sitting in a living room when we were there. Keep just talking about someone. Is that your sort of inspiration to your wife? Is it someone else? Where does that come from?
Speaker 4:So, aesthetically, that's myself and my wife. My wife does an amazing job. She's an artist as well. She's a photographer, yeah, and she was a touring rock and roll photographer for a long time. So she's got a great eye, she's got a great style and design.
Speaker 4:So we redid the tasting cellar, actually pre-COVID, so we've been going out. We wanted to feel like a mature point, like our living room, right, cause that's how we live and we've opened up and create people in and it's fun, it's cool, it's not stuffy, it's not. I always thought one of the things why we really started pushing towards that way was I always felt, even being in this industry my whole life, when I would go to a winery, I felt that timidity. Walking Right, there's this big, usually some big ass door, some long walk. Then you got to go to this ominous bar way in the back to check in Hi, how was the wine? It's already an intimidating industry and then you may even more intimidating by the way it looks. And so we're like we want us to feel comfortable, natural and fun and make it easy. And so you're not sitting today. I don't know about what experience you have when you were there with level, but we greet you when you walk in. You don't need to get off. You don't need to get off the parking lot. Like, as soon as you step off the parking lot, there's somebody right there with a glass of wine and greets you, and so we take that whole thing out of the picture. Equation, right? So you're immediately relaxed. Okay, they know me. Tell me your name. Okay, we're going to get you your place.
Speaker 4:So I wanted to trade the, not only because I don't like the intimidation, backs or the wine wine side of it, like that, and I don't. I also recognize these people have gone out of their way to come see us and it's like you go into a restaurant. Right, you made a consciousness and you chose that restaurant. You're going there while good experience, and so that's how we run it. So each person comes and they we know they're you're going to have your own host. That host is going to be through the whole time. They're going to take you to sit you down and it's like nice little, like you said, like you're living your own. There's little vignettes throughout the inside of the building and then outside of the building I put I love landscapes, so I'm like how do we create like cool little like, almost like combanas, like we do in Vegas, right. So I built these. We built these little planners and put bamboo privates and they still like each place. When you sit outside, you're out amongst the vines and you have your own little living room, right With your people, and so we cater to that and everybody gets their own experience is they'll give you as much education or as little as you want.
Speaker 4:They read you their pros. So we shut down once a month and do training, like we're really intense about customer experience. We want you to leave there feeling good, like we know you spent your time here, buddy, and it's not. Why is not cheap and time is not cheap, and it's so for us. We want people to walk out of there feeling great, like they're super happy, they're super pumped, they learned something, they felt good Cause, in the days to experience we're creating for you. Right, it's not not Disneyland man, you're not get jump on to get on the ride and go out of there. It's a journey that you're on with us and so it's good.
Speaker 4:We weren't very hospitable, very much. That's our biggest thing and it's interesting. It's a machine. We get a ton of people through there. It is really difficult right To be able to make everybody happy, and we seem to find the way of Joe that runs the place. She, just, she's awesome. I mean she's, she's. She's got to figure it out. She's got to be able to keep everybody in line, everybody going, and this definitely is fun to watch from behind the scenes. Yeah, I think it was as good.
Speaker 1:It blows me away. I know I flipped in some wine rays or restaurants and me. Like we said, they're two to three times wider, so you could give any given one. Certainly people are going to get some of the bigger names and names that they came in there before, but that doesn't give you a free stuff. You know, just to shuttle people in like oh, and you should be doing even, even harder.
Speaker 4:That's exactly it.
Speaker 1:That's the way we look at it. And someone comes and they do three wine rooms. The chance of them that they're going to at least look at going to you guys is really high, right, if they come from outside of the region. So I mean, you're the. You might be their first touch point with the region. So always appreciate your advocacy for Paso, especially as we watched it grow over time and even more connection than I do there. So thank you Really.
Speaker 2:Anything as we wrap up here, no, I just think that additional emphasis on how great Paso is, and I think again to your other point, the diversity of the wines in the terroir. I don't think a lot of people outside of or even in California really know that there's limestone soils and certain parts of Paso that really aren't found much anywhere else in California, much less some of the names that people might know, like Napa. So I think there's not only this cool day, night temperature thing. There's unique soils. There's actually more of a. There is a reason behind why the wines are special. Rather than everybody says their region's special and can make anything, it's cool to dive in and actually explain that, and that's why there actually are sub-AVAs. It's not just we want to have our own name, it's actually different and they make different wines which are all unique and special. So I think it's great that you guys are helping promote that as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, we're. We actually have a soils kit that we send all of our sales staff that our viticulturist. She's created Stacey's. It's really cool. She does brain. Get her to come out all. Get her to give you guys a tour. She's super knowledgeable. She'll talk shale, shist and all kinds of stuff all day long with you. It's really cool. But we'd have a little kit we've made and we'll show buyers, different people, and educate them what this soil looks like and this soil looks like and why this is important and why gravel, gravel, these soils is so important for high quality Cabernet, why lime stuff is important to roam, for idols in particular, and everything like that.
Speaker 4:So it is interesting. There's so much right. This went to your point right, it's really cool. And it's not like everybody says, oh, we can do everything great here. So no, we can't do everything great, but we can do certain things good and we can do certain things world class. But it has to take. It takes a sum of all these elements right, right soil, the right temperature, right cloud, right farming method and you can't. So it is exciting. It's a very special region. It really is.
Speaker 1:Yeah thanks, nelson, thanks for your time, keep up the great work and, yeah, thanks for doing so much to promote just not only the region but the quality winemaking, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Thank you both very much for your comments and having me on. I very much appreciate it.
Speaker 2:I just want to echo Brady Thank you so much for everybody listening. If you haven't already, go to your, whatever platform you're listening on, just throw us five stars. We don't need a review, but I was looking at our Spotify rating yesterday. Somebody gave us less than five, so we're not no longer five anymore, so I was sad. So everybody like subscribe, follow, hit the little icon so that you get your notifications. The new episodes come out and we're excited for a hundred more episodes and hopefully it won't be a hundred new guests, it will be a hundred new interviews at least, but it'll be really exciting. So cheers, thanks for that.
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